Just so you all know, there's a reason my quote is "How could you NOT SEEthat bus?" I volunteer as a motorman with Old Pueblo Trolley in Tucson, Arizona. My job is to drive the streetcar and pick up and drop off passengers. As our railway operates in the public right of way, we have to share the road with less than competent motorists. Occasionally a motorist will cut it too close and there will be a collision between the auto and streetcar. Usually the other party's response is "I didn't see the streetcar coming." The question that I want to ask these morons is "How can you NOT SEE a vehicle that is 11 feet wide, 14 feet tall and 40 feet long?"

Same way people don't seem to see Roadtrains coming and they are 152 feet long. Guess some people have selective blindness

"I'm not smiling, I'm hungry"
self explanatory.

as is mine

Preserve railway history??? I spent ten years working for a tourist short line operating vintage steam trains in Chattanooga, Tennessee. I worked mostly as passenger train conductor and was qualified as conductor on two other railways that we operated trains over. I did also spend time working in the railway shops, assisting machinists and odd jobs including sign painting. Tightest spot I've ever been in was the firebox of our ex-United States Army steam locomotive-barely able to squeeze through the fire door and I was pretty skinny back then.

As for Roadtrains, we don't have anything similar to those to speak of here in the states. Triple trailer operations are only permitted in 14 states and 12 of those restrict the combined length to under 100 feet. Alaska allows 110 feet and Colorado allows for a combined length of 115 feet. Even then, they're very restricted as to what routes can be used. Most motorists are inattentive, or at least that's what I observe. Both of the collisions I've had as a motorman were caused by inattentive drivers. In both cases, they pulled in front of the streetcar and learned very expensive lessons. One was a college kid who was distracted by his attractive girlfriend and brand new car. It wasn't so nice after the streetcar mangled his left front fender. The other was a taxicab minivan that got the driver's side door demolished when the cabbie attempted to make an illegal u-turn directly in front of the approaching streetcar. These drivers don't realize that a 35,000 pound streetcar does not stop very fast-even at low speeds.

Cool, i live within 15 minutes of a ARHS (Australian Railway Historical Society) preserved Branch line, 35-40 minutes from the Workshops Rail Museum which shares the grounds of the Ipswich Steam Workshops where Queensland Rail Heritage stores and maintains their Steam fleet, 1 hour from the pioneer steam railway and right on the mainline that Restored steam locos make their first trail run on.

For you interest, my youtube channel. My railway vids are towards the back of the gallery.

http://www.youtube.com/user/RedtailFox1

The line that I was with in Chattanooga, Tennessee owns three miles of the old Southern Railway main line from Chattanooga to Knoxville and Atlanta. It was abandoned in 1953 when the railroad rebuilt the Citico Yards and decided to reroute the main line around the north end of Missionary Ridge. The reason for this was the Civil War era tunnel through the ridge that had not seen any significant alterations since 1886 when a partial collapse of the lining was repaired. When the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum was looking for a home, the Southern donated 8 acres of land in East Chattanooga and the right of way through the tunnel (979' in length) up to a missing viaduct just beyond Milepost 1. When the Museum raised the money to replace the viaduct and completed the construction, the Southern donated the remaining 2 miles that connected to the new main line at Jersey, Tennessee. That two miles included two major bridges, one being the Western and Atlantic Railroad crossing and the other being the Chickamauga Creek Bridge-300' long and 80' above the mean water level.

At the west end of the line, we connect with the East Chattanooga Belt Railway (owned and operated by Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum). It leases the East Chattanooga Belt Line from the Norfolk Southern and performs industry switching for the few shippers that still require rail service. It connects with the Norfolk Southern Railway at Main Street Interlocking and the Norfolk Southern and Chattooga and Chickamauga Railways at 23rd Street Interlocking. We have trackage rights over the Norfolk Southern Railway through the 23rd Street, Main Street and East End Avenue Interlocking plants as well as certain yard and main line tracks necessary to access the old Terminal Station-now the Chattanooga Choo-Choo Holiday Inn. Trains over the NS do not require pilot or NS crew as our crews meet their operating requirements. Trains over the Chattooga and Chickamauga Railway do require a pilot. Operating trains through the interlockings was always busy due to the fact that we had to turn the train to back into the stub station and cross over two main lines to do so. We'd get close and personal with the freight trains as the operators would often line us up if the other train wasn't going to conflict with our move. I also imagine that for the unsuspecting CSX train crews, it was a shock to be sitting at the home signal and see a freshly painted GP-7 go sailing by with a matching passenger consist. It was probably even more shocking on the days that the 610 ran the downtown trains.

Soule Shops is probably the best equipped railway shop in the southern United States. It was completed in 1982 and has inspection pits, drop pits for wheels and other assemblies, a full locomotive wheel shop, coach shop, carpenter's shop, machine shop with several machines and other facilities. It is named after my late friend, Robert Murray Soule, Jr. who was one of the leading preservationists in the southern United States in the 1950s. He was a co-founder of TVRM and envisioned it as an operating railroad museum-not a static one. We turned away many suggested prime spots because they had limited potential for train operations, even the fully intact Craven's Yard with roundhouse, turntable, coal and water facilities and yard facilities. Bob was one of the last surviving old time railroaders there and I learned a heck of a lot working there around people like him.

America has always had a love of Steam, down here there are a few places but most of the operating Locomotives belong to Queensland Rail, the original Owners.

I can only think of one Locomotive that was built in the US that i have seen here. Queensland Railways AC16 No.221A, built by Baldwin Locomotive Works in 1943 and was one of 20 sent here to help with wartime traffic. The AC16 class were the only 2-8-2s on Queensland's 3'6" gauge system.

AC16 No.221A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvGd_QuwM3o

I must admit that the railroad that I am involved with has received many gifts in kind from our federal government. The process for disposal of federal property puts non-profit organizations such as preservation railways about third down in the line of refusal. Other federal agencies get first right, state and local agencies get second right. Non-profit agencies get their chance before the items are listed for public sale. Our railroad received seven vintage diesel electric locomotives through this process, five of which were easily put back in working order. Four of them were RSD-1 units built by the American Locomotive Company in 1943-44 for the United States Army Transportation Corps. At least one of the units-USA No. 8014 saw foreign service. We have seen photographs of the 8014 hauling military supplies through the deserts of Iran during the war.

The 8014 came to us through the Tennessee Valley Authority while the 8669, 8677 and two other units came from the United States Air Force. We also received three EMD GP-7Ls Nos. 1824, 1829 and 1832 from the Tennessee Valley Authority. The 1832 is stored inoperative but the 1829 and 1824 have since been rebuilt. We also have ex-USATC No. 610 and 611. The 611 is also stored inoperative but the 610 was returned to service in 1990 following a major rebuild. Many of the USATC locomotives that were shipped overseas during the war were left where they were-aiding in the rebuilding after the war. Only a few were kept stateside for switching purposes. The USATC did maintain a training school at Fort Eustice, Virginia which is where the 610 and 611 came from. From what we've heard from former USATC staff that were stationed at Ft. Eustice during the end of steam, the 610 was not a favorite of the men. Her throttle valve tended to stick-still does to this day. Many of the engineers there would swap her for the 611 or 612, leaving the 610 in the shed most of the time. That meant that she was not really even broken in by the time the Army did away with the steam locomotives.

Why (you ask) did the Army have an interest in operating steam locomotives into the 1950s and 1960s? The Cold War. Many Eastern Bloc countries still had steam locomotives. If the Army ever had to invade such a country, they wanted their men to know how to repair and operate whatever locomotives they found, as they certainly wouldn't be bringing theirs along. Thus the need for steam.

It is good to know that so much history is being preserved, I think Queensland Rail has a whole yard down at the Redbank workshops, filled with decommissioned DELs that they have no intention of repairing or donating, they are mostly large mainline Diesels, too big for Heritage operators.

Here in the US, there are a number of privately owned road diesel electric locomotives that are operated by heritage or private groups. These tend to be a mixture of E and F car body units. There a quite a few E-8 passenger locomotives in private hands and a few E-7s and E-6s. There are also some FP-9s, F-7s and FB units. Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum is currently overhauling an ex-Southern Railway E-8A for return to passenger service. We also have an FP-9A and FP-9B that are owned by a member stored on site awaiting restoration. The largest freight locomotive that we have is an ex-Southern Railway GP-38-2 that was formerly owned by the Tennessee, Alabama and Georgia Railway. That locomotive was originally TAG No. 80 and carried the name John A. Chambliss. As far as we know, it was the last American locomotive to officially be named. Even after being taken over by the Southern Railway, the Chambliss retained its name up through the 1990s. It is currently stored awaiting restoration.

Queensland Rail 1502 class DEL

Reminds me of the EMD SD-9 or a U23B. The railroad that I mostly remember was the Southern Railway. They were one of the last two railroads to buy diesel electric locomotives with a high short hood. They also designated the long hood as the front of the locomotive, meaning that the cab was at the rear-a holdover from the days of steam.

They were not alone. The following photo's are of some of Queensland Railway's Diesels. Can you guess which is the leading end?

QR 1170 class 60 ton DEL


QR 1600 class 60 tone DEL


QR 1700 class 60 ton DEL


QR 1720 class 60 ton DEL


Although they were designed to operate 'Long end leading', for quite understandable reasons the drivers prefered to operate them 'Cab leading'

Here in the US, federal regulations require that the front end of a diesel electric locomotive be designated by the letter "F" painted on side frame on each side of the locomotive.

Here are some photographs of Southern Railway and Norfolk and Western Railway diesel electric locomotives that were taken a few years after the two companies were merged into the Norfolk
Southern Railway.



Southern Railway SD-40-2 No. 6560 running forwards. Even though the locomotives were eventually all painted with the NS corporate markings, not all locomotives were listed on the Norfolk Southern rosters. For tax and legal reasons, some locomotives had to remain listed as property for subsidiary railroads. Locomotives owned or assigned to subsidiary railroads have the sibsidiary's reporting marks painted in small letters under the locomotive number on the cab. Southern Railway was the only US railroad to follow this practice, as their system was made up of more than thirteen subsidiary companies.


Cincinatti, New Orleans and Texas Pacific Railway GP-50 No. 7051 running in reverse. That could be problematic as it put the engineman on the lefthand side of the cab.

The Cincinatti, New Orleans and Texas Pacific Railway does not technically own its mainline. The mainline runs from Cincinnati, Ohio to Chattanooga, Tennessee and is owned by the Cincinatti Southern Railroad-owned by the City of Cincinatti, Ohio. The Cincinatti Southern has a 333 mile long main line, making it the largest municipally owned railroad in the world. Norfolk Southern, through the CNO&TP leases the line-the rent being a fixed amount plus a percentage of the revenues realized.



Southern Railway GP-38-2 No. 2792 in the classic Southern Railway freight markings. The locomotives had the Southern Railway hearld (green lettering on gold background) on each end of the locomotive. The units were painted gloss black with gold lettering, a gold or yellow pin stripe and a broad gray stripe along the bottom of the hood unit. Southern preferred end mounted bells and outfitted their locomotives with dual Nathan five chime air horns.

Concerning the original topic, there is such thing as inattentional blindness where you technically see something that could be very prominent but since your attention is otherwise occupied, you don't react to it at all and won't even notice/remember it unless it's pointed out.

Also, Redtail and Alan, please continue with the railway stories/pictures, I find them interesting even if I can't really contribute to the discussion since my deeper railroad knowledge/experience approaches nil.

Speaking of military and steam locomotives, the Finnish Army kept dozens of steam locos in emergency stores up to the mid-eighties, they were meant to be used in case an invasion knocked out the electric grid and diesel supply was cut off. Like this :



The steam locos in these stores were finally sold or scrapped when no threat seemed imminent and the army realized they would likely not be driveable in an emergency without extensive repairs.

One of the Swedish reserve locomotives ended up being sold to the Belfast and Moosehead Lake Railway up in Maine. Unfortunately, they've since ceased operations and I do not know where the 4-6-0 went.

The United States Army Transportation Corps continued to train their staff to operate and maintain steam locomotives for very much the same reason that the Swedish kept theirs in storage-a Cold War turned hot (which fortunately never came). The USATC locomotives were kept in running condition until the late 1960s. Only three ex-USATC steam locomotives have recently run-a Pershing class 2-8-0 on the Texas State Railroad, S-160 class No. 1702 on the Great Smokey Mountains Railroad and A class No. 610 on the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum.

Recently, RJ Corman Railroad and the Iowa Interstate Railroad have imported Chinese 2-10-2s for excursion operations. These are late build locomotives constructed in the 1970s or early 1980s. There are also a couple of Chinese built 2-8-2s here running stateside-one on the Boone and Scenic Railway in Iowa and the other up on the Valley Railroad in Conneticut if I remember correctly. At least, that's where I think it went after the New York, Susquehanna and Western stopped running passenger excursions.

Of steam locomotives bought from abroad :



Two of these were brought from Minnesota to Finland in 1913, to haul logs in Finnish Lappland. Apparently driving them was troublesome, the drivers sits in front of the boiler, uncovered, and they had no brakes so going downhill was tricky, such places had to be properly prepared to prevent accidents. One of them was driven to its side at least twice.

Only used until 1916 when WW1 stopped the operation, never to be resumed.

Both were put in storage and finally burned during the Winter War, rusting away in their sorry state until they were first covered by newly built sheds in the seventies and restored in the late eighties.  

--Last edited by meckelbu on 2008-06-03 16:02:49 --

I suppose that that machine would be more properly referred to as a traction engine. There were (and still are) many traction engines used in heavy construction and agriculture here in the United States. Many are still operated by enthusiasts who attend various meets. Most (if not all) US traction engines were built with the driver and fireman (if one was used) in the cab. There were a few locomotives built that were commonly referred to as Camelbacks or Mother Hubbards. They featured two cabs-one forward on the boiler where the engineman ran the locomotive and a rudimentary cab at the rear to protect the fireman. None were built after about 1915 when construction of new Camelback type locomotives was outlawed.

I'll dig up some additional photographs and post them later in the week. I've got some really neat prints-far too many to remember offhand.